100 Days as Chief Police Officer
Ross Solly - ABC 666 Interview with Chief Police Officer Audrey Fagan
Tuesday 11 October 2005
Ross Solly: It's 100 days since Audrey Fagan took on the job as the top cop here in the ACT. Recently you might have received a phone call. There was a survey going around asking if you felt safe in Canberra. Privately some of the police here in the ACT are saying that they are being stretched to the limit, there's an extraordinary pressure on police resources at the moment. Audrey Fagan has joined me in the studio -- good morning Audrey.
Audrey Fagan: Good morning Ross, and to your listeners.
Ross Solly: A hundred days in the job, you're not looking too tired.
Audrey Fagan: Look it's been a fantastic 100 days and time flies when you're having some fun. It's been very challenging, it's been fabulous meeting the community and particularly the staff of ACT Policing. I've just enjoyed it immensely.
Ross Solly: Now, Steve Pratt the Opposition police spokesman, has been very vocal of recent days talking about the shortage of police officers here in the ACT. Are you short staffed at the moment?
Audrey Fagan: We're funded Ross for 796 full time equivalent staff as they're known, and we continue to police within our budget. That's been consistent now for as long as I can remember. Last budget the government announced an extra 30 police over the next three years, so we're seeing that starting to roll in now, and yesterday I spent time with our current recruit classes so I'm seeing the new people coming in. We're enjoying low attrition rates as well, the lowest ever. We continue to police to those resources that we're funded for.
Ross Solly: Is there enough though, do you feel confident that you have the police officers to carry out the tasks that you need to do here in the ACT?
Audrey Fagan: I'm satisfied and when you look at our performance indicators, we're meeting the vast majority of those performance indicators and we report annually on those. So, you know there's always unfortunately, times when demand outstrips supply, it's a simple equation, but the police are there to do the high priority work and keep Canberra as safe as we can.
Ross Solly: Is that happening more often now though, that demand is out-stripping what you've got in terms of resources?
Audrey Fagan: No, in fact it doesn't stack up. If you look at our last annual report, our burglary rates and clearance rates there are showing a 25% reduction on the previous year. It's about targeting our resources and getting to the right places, and the right work first up, and adjusting each day, each week, each month as we get the statistics.
Ross Solly: Are some of your officers though being forced to work double shifts?
Audrey Fagan: I'd like to make this clear that no one is forced to do any shifts on overtime where they're not willing to do that. We use overtime as an additional strategy for operations that we might be doing to supplement our normal work, and that along with adjusting patrols etc is just a normal part of our strategy. The police officers here in Canberra enjoy doing their job and getting out with the community.
Ross Solly: So they're not working double shifts because you don't have enough police officers around to work in some shifts.
Audrey Fagan: What we will cover for example, if somebody's unwell on a shift and we need to cover that, the option's given out to staff to cover that shift, and as I said, that's a voluntary thing. Similarly where we have a targeted operation we may supplement that. But my focus is on getting the amount of police out on the streets very visible to Canberra community to keep the safe community that we enjoy.
Ross Solly: How often would you require an officer to work a double shift?
Audrey Fagan: Oh gosh, you're talking…
Ross Solly: On any given day, would there be an expectation that you would require some officers to work a double shift?
Audrey Fagan: On any given day, if there's a need, then the individual Superintendents - and we've got 14 Superintendents or Coordinators running the stations and the crime types that we're responsible for - will manage their resources and supplement where needed, so it's a level of detail that I can't articulate completely to you.
Ross Solly: Ok I suppose you can't fully answer that question because it is very broad but, on most days is there a requirement for some of your officers to work double shifts?
Audrey Fagan: I don't think that is the case at all.
Ross Solly: Pretty rare is it?
Audrey Fagan: You're talking in semantics and for me I'd have to do a complete analysis and I'd like to look over a long period of time if I were to do that. Where we have an operation in place -- if you look at the terrorism exercise for example, or where we're responding to a particular campaign -- we will supplement that appropriately and I'm quite confident that we're managing our resources very well. In fact if you look at our financial budget for last year, we managed it within the order of $50,000; on a $91 million dollar budget, that's pretty good really.
Ross Solly: As the Chief Police Officer here in the ACT I'm sure you would be being told if your officers and your inspectors etcetera are being forced more often than not to ask their staff to work double shifts.
Audrey Fagan: I meet every day with our executive team and I've been round to all the Superintendents responsible for the crime types. This has not been raised with me as an issue and in fact, it's often welcome that there is an opportunity to work a little bit extra in the community by our police officers.
Ross Solly: Overtime's always very attractive as well. What about claims that some officers are being moved from crime prevention to man increased traffic patrols?
Audrey Fagan: We continue to use our resources across the realm as flexibly as we can. We're all sworn officers who are competent with our use of force skills and we'll use those resources as flexibly as we can. The Superintendents all meet weekly and adjust their operations and how they respond to make those solid operational calls. I think that's right and appropriate, and I think that's what the Canberra community expects.
Ross Solly: It'd be nice though if you had enough staff to have adequately resourced the crime prevention area and the traffic patrols area without having to shift people around to fill holes like the lady with her finger in the dyke at times I suppose.
Audrey Fagan: Well it's a matter of serving all your various needs and if there's a particular priority, we make no bones about getting out there and getting that work done. I'm not going into the specifics of what areas might have moved what staff; the Superintendents ably manage that and I'm quite proud of the good work they're doing.
Ross Solly: The statistics do show though that there have been less RBTs here in the ACT in the last 12 months. In fact it's a quite considerable drop on five years ago. Is that a resourcing issue?
Audrey Fagan: The RBTs are something that we've been targeting very appropriately. If you look at the strike rate -- I think it sits around one in 40 roughly that we're actually getting a positive result-- and when you look back a number of years, at one point it was one in 300. I'd rather get that target one in 40, use our intelligence and focus our resources to the right place and that's really what that's about.
Ross Solly: But that sounds like you're saying that there aren't enough, targeting I mean if you're getting such a return why don't you have them all over the place? I haven't seen an RBT here, and I'm setting myself up here, there'll probably be one set up outside my house tonight, but I haven't seen an RBT here in the ACT for ages, four months at least; when I first came here I saw them all the time.
Audrey Fagan: I'm not sure how long you've been here Ross but RBTs are out there, and you know if you look at our campaign prior to this weekend just gone, by we actually gave the community a warning that they would be out particularly with Canberra Race Day, encouraging people to drive safely, be responsible. We don't want to attend a tragic collision where it involves fatalities; it's the last thing we want to do, and I think it's a joint responsibility as far as traffic and road management strategies are concerned.
Ross Solly: One of the other initiatives of recent times with ACT Policing are the stun guns, the Tasers; would you say that's been a success?
Audrey Fagan: The Taser X26 is now about 10 months into a 12 month trial. I'm very satisfied with where that's gone, especially when the officers are presented with a potentially life-threatening situation. We need to remember here, the trial's quite limited, but the Taser is being trialled, or used in every State and Territory police force, backed up by solid research across Australia, US and UK.
Ross Solly: Well there's been some reports of late which I'm sure you've seen, suggesting that that research is in fact flawed.
Audrey Fagan: I understand some 18 months ago, one aspect of research was questioned. As I've said we've used Australian, UK and US research and as recent as a month ago, the Canadians have just released some further research supporting the use of the Tasers. I think it's really important while you're trialling something to allow that trial to run, and what will happen at the end of the trial our safety committee will actually review all the use, which they do as a matter of course anyway, and make a recommendation to the management about whether we would continue with the Tasers.
Ross Solly: Do you think there's a place here in Canberra for these full time? Would stun guns make policing a bit easier?
Audrey Fagan: I think it's pre-emptive. I want to keep an open mind at this point. I'd rather allow the trial to be completed.
Ross Solly: It gives the police another option though doesn't it, when you're out and about?
Audrey Fagan: Our first and foremost option in any dialogue or any situation involving situations where somebody's at risk and remember we're often trying to help the victim here, is to have the person listen to what we're trying to say and I'd much prefer that than to go to any other options where we elevate, put hands on or take a physical approach. So communication skills are at the heart of a good police officer.
Ross Solly: I spoke to you last week, or it might have been the week before after our new terrorism laws were announced asking you what effect it might have on policing here in the ACT and you said at the time that we would be getting a briefing. Do you know more about it now, and how it's going to affect the operations here?
Audrey Fagan: We have had some dialogue now with the Commonwealth and those laws will be examined, as they come out, through the Department of Justice and Community Safety, in consultation obviously with ACT Policing. We welcome them, as I think I said last time we spoke. They'll be an important part of our response should a terrorist situation ever occur here, which would be the last thing we'd obviously want but Canberra residents need to know that we're prepared and have the capabilities available to us.
Ross Solly: I have been contacted since that time by a couple of police officers here who are concerned that it might affect the level of work that they can do here, and it might stretch their resources to breaking point.
Audrey Fagan: Well I'm not aware of that.
Ross Solly: It is going to be extra strain on you though isn't it? You've got all these other aspects you're going to have to deal with now.
Audrey Fagan: I like to think about laws and the way that we modify and introduce new laws as a further capability capacity that we can actually use, so to me it's about educating our officers with the new laws and then they have those as an availability to them to apply appropriately.
Ross Solly: But that's all well and good but then you also need to make sure that you're not overworking our officers and that seems to be the concern that all of a sudden there's all this unprecedented demand for the AFP at the moment. You're in all these hot spots around the world, you've got to worry about policing here, now you've got these new terrorism laws coming in.
Audrey Fagan: Well I guess I don't think about it like that. I think about an investigation and when you look at an investigation, the more available resources you have for you to do that the better it can be. So it's about an awareness and training of our officers. If you look at the AFP's attrition rate - it's at 3.5% attrition -- it's at an all time low. So you know what you might be hearing and what I'm experiencing are a little bit different. And I know our police officers are very motivated to do the good work that they continue to do.
Ross Solly: Allright just finally: in the last 24 hours we've had the decision from the courts, yet another knock back for David Eastman, the man who was found guilty of murdering Assistant Commissioner Colin Winchester, this has dragged on for a long time. I can only imagine what it would mean for the police officers, especially police officers who knew Colin Winchester and know his wife Gwen Winchester, which you do.
Audrey Fagan: I met with Gwen recently and I think that the fact that Mr Miles has handed down his decision would give some closure to Mrs Winchester and her family. It's 17 years and it still touches us deeply -- the murder of Colin Winchester. I think it's appropriate that there are procedures in place where people have an opportunity to have matters reviewed and Mr Eastman's had that available to him, but I think Justice Miles summed up that he'd had a fair and just trial and we welcome that.
Ross Solly: Because with police officers, when you lose a colleague, especially in a case like that, is it a case of reliving it every time it goes up before the courts, every time you hear it in the news?
Audrey Fagan: I think Ross that you know, you reflect on the memory. We were talking about Remembrance Day and it's a time where you do think about the colleagues that have fallen if you like, but also you remember the reason that you're doing the job and I think that's a big motivator for police and I trust that the community understands that we'll keep doing the job through those tough times as well.
Ross Solly: One of your roles as Chief Police Officer as you mentioned is keeping contact with Gwen Winchester.
Audrey Fagan: Gwen's a lovely person, very close to the AFP and that's one of the binding things in the AFP; we do try to look after our staff, families and Gwen's been a great supporter, come to many of the Remembrance Days, many of our ceremonies. And I just feel for her and her family today and trust that this will help her.
Ross Solly: Audrey Fagan, 100 days in office, how many more days will there be?
Audrey Fagan: Well I look forward to the next 1000 or so.
Ross Solly: Thousand or so?
Audrey Fagan: Yes, it's been fantastic, really satisfying to meet the community, meet the staff as I said and it's a most rewarding role.
Ross Solly: Thanks for coming in this morning on 666 Breakfast. It's Audrey Fagan who is our Chief Police Officer who as I said celebrating today, her 100th day in office.
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