Watch house review
Ross Solly - ABC 666 Interview with Chief Police Officer Audrey Fagan
Tuesday 13 February 2007
Ross Solly: Audrey Fagan is the ACT Chief Police Officer; yesterday the AFP announced a review of the way police watch houses are managed. There’s at least one case before the court involving, now a former police officer, and suggestions of other improper behaviour including theft and excessive use of force. Audrey Fagan, good morning to you.
Audrey Fagan: Good morning Ross.
Ross Solly: And my apologies for leaving you on hold for so long and in fact at one stage cutting you off.
Audrey Fagan: That’s fine.
Ross Solly: By mistake. Um, who’s decision was this to have this review?
Audrey Fagan: We went across to the Ombudsman’s office and proposed it to the Acting Ombudsman, Doctor Vivienne Thom. Then we worked together on some terms of reference that are modelled a little bit like a Defence review that was conducted by the Ombudsman and Defence last year and that led to the terms of reference that we have. So the proposal came from the AFP. Dr Thom and the Ombudsman’s office were supportive of looking at our procedures in a joined-up way.
Ross Solly: I suppose to go down this path you must have concerns in the first place. How long has this been bothering the AFP for?
Audrey Fagan: Well, the issue of one officer, a former member before the courts was on our minds and a factor [in our considerations]. Also we’ve now had our closed circuit TVs, the new system, in place from the beginning of the last financial year, so it’s almost 12 months so we wanted to look at how that’s operating. Put that together with our guidelines and policy – they are due for a review before August this year – so there were a number of factors and they coupled together to suggest to me, and the AFP, to go across to the Ombudsman and put this as a proposal.
Ross Solly: Who will actually conduct the review; who will be on the panel?
Audrey Fagan: The review team is a member of the Ombudsman’s Office and a Federal Agent from the Australian Federal Police National side, who has had experience in the ACT at senior level. His name is Federal Agent or Commander Rudi Lammers.
Ross Solly: There has been some concern – you may have seen in the papers today – civil liberties, for one, are worried that it [the review] is not independent enough. That’s a problem isn’t it? Any report you do has got to stand up to scrutiny from the public . . .
Audrey Fagan: I think community confidence and public confidence is very important. The review terms of reference are public and enable interested groups – and I certainly invite Mr Rawlings and Civil Liberties to look at those terms of reference and give input to the review – that is actually catered for in the terms of reference. The Ombudsman has a statutory independence to the AFP and I think doing this together in a very open way, is what the community would expect.
Ross Solly: Will the review speak to people who have spent time in the watch house?
Audrey Fagan: The review is open to speak to a number of bodies and people. The review only started yesterday. The plan is – and it’s catered for in the terms of reference – that should a complaint emerge, or another matter emerge, the normal investigative processes take place, and that’s through the AFP professional standards [unit] with the Ombudsman’s role as dictated by their legislation as well.
Ross Solly: It may well be though that people who’ve been in the watch house may be reluctant to come forward and provide evidence. Will the panel seek out these people? I’m sure that you’ve got records of people who’ve stayed in the watch house. [Will you] actively seek them out to try and find out from them what the experience was like and whether they think it’s up to scratch?
Audrey Fagan: If you look to the actual terms of reference that we’ve got, it’s about policy, procedure, the use and functionality of the watch house. If people have got complaints they can either go directly to the Ombudsman or [AFP] Professional Standards and they will be investigated. This review is to be completed by the end of April and investigative processes are a separate path that they go down. So what I’m keen to do is make sure that we have training regimes, policies, and procedures that meet that practice. Certainly on history, that is precisely what the AFP did in implementing the [Aboriginal] Deaths In Custody Royal Commission recommendations, the first jurisdiction to actually implement those.
Ross Solly: An inquiry is more looking at how it’s operating from a police point of view rather than whether it’s serving the prisoner well, is that right?
Audrey Fagan: No, in fact that’s probably [incorrect]. I haven’t given you the complete dot points: one [point] goes particularly to the assessment identification and subsequent treatment of persons with special needs. It looks at how the management is occurring effectively within the watch house, but it’s not to look at individual complaints; the processes that are already in place for those will and do stand the test of that rigour. And it’s a different process, to look at how the operations of the place work.
Ross Solly: Alright well you only have a short timeframe to work with.
Audrey Fagan: Yes indeed.
Ross Solly: And I know it’s underway already, so we’ll speak to you later down the track and find out how it’s progressing. Audrey Fagan, thank you so much for time this morning.
Audrey Fagan: Good morning.
Ross Solly: That’s ACT Chief Police Officer Audrey Fagan on 666 Breakfast.
Ends//