Taxi drivers boycott Civic
Ross Solly - ABC666 Interview with Acting Chief Police Officer Leanne Close
Wednesday 15 January 2008
Ross Solly: If you've been listening this week we have been bringing you updates on the events in Civic on the weekend, of course this was . . . well we've been calling it various things, but brawl seems to have been the word adopted by many but some have pointed out to us, well it can only be a brawl if there are two parties actually brawling, and the taxi drivers claim that they were trying to defend themselves but look, that's a matter for the police I'm sure. We have, each day this week, put in requests to talk to the police about the incidents of the weekend and I'm happy to say, that sitting opposite me in the studio this morning is the Acting Chief Police Officer for the ACT Leanne Close. Good morning to you, I suppose I call you Acting Chief Police Officer do I?
Leanne Close: That's fine, yes good morning. Leanne's fine.
Ross Solly: Thanks for coming in and talking to us. As we know, there's been a lot of talk about what happened on the weekend. Let's start from the top. Some of the allegations, some of the concerns which have been raised by the cabbies. The first one is that the response time from the police was nowhere near good enough.
Leanne Close: I'm not too sure exactly what the feeling is about that, because the response time was actually within four minutes from the time that the cars were dispatched, so I think that the perceptions by people at the scene felt that they may have been there a little bit longer than they had been before police arrived, but on our police operations logs, from the time that the police were dispatched was only a matter of four minutes.
Ross Solly: From the time that police were dispatched, but what about from the first time it was logged.
Leanne Close: I don't have that time with me today, but it was a matter of minutes so it certainly wasn't the time that's been reported and bandied about.
Ross Solly: Because the cabbies are saying it could have been 25, I think even now it might have blown out to about half an hour.
Leanne Close: Yes, that's not correct.
Ross Solly: It could be correct though, if that brawl, or that event was taking place and twenty minutes into it, someone finally got to make a phone call.
Leanne Close: That's true, part of the difficulty for us at the moment, investigating this matter though, is that many of the cab drivers involved in particular, haven't yet come forward and provided information to the police. So they haven't provided their statements to us. It's now some five days after the incident occurred and there's lots of reports in the media about what allegedly happened, but the people aren’t actually coming forward and providing that information to investigating officers.
Ross Solly: What have the police done to try and get those statements.
Leanne Close: Well after the initial day, on the day following the incident, particularly in relation to the main taxi driver who was involved right from the start of the incident.
Ross Solly: Mr Ramin?
Leanne Close: Yes, who we've seen in some of the reports having a gash on his face. The investigating officer telephoned seven times that next day to try and make a time to speak to him, bring him in for his statement and he hasn't contacted the police up until this point in time. So we still don't have his statement.
Ross Solly: He hasn't returned any calls?
Leanne Close: No.
Ross Solly: Cause we've spoken to him on this program.
Leanne Close: Yes.
Ross Solly: But he hasn't returned your calls?
Leanne Close: No.
Ross Solly: He was there on the night, obviously he was there on the night though, he said he was there when the police turned up, why wasn't a statement taken then?
Leanne Close: Well certainly on the night all of the people who were there were spoken to, the police very quickly tried to get descriptions of people who were involved and just really get an understanding of what's actually taken place and who they needed to speak to. By the time police were there, some of the people involved had already left the area so, the descriptions were important to try and get out and identify who these people were that we needed to speak to. And as I said, not just that person, but several of the other taxi drivers have also not come forward and provided any statements to police. So the information we're given about what's actually occurred is only from bystanders and other people that have come forward and given us that information.
Ross Solly: But were attempts made on the night to get statements from the taxi drivers then?
Leanne Close: Certainly yes, descriptions, other details were obtained.
Ross Solly: What they wouldn't give the statements then?
Leanne Close: Well, in terms of a statement it has to actually, it's quite a detailed process as well, we get the initial information and notes are taken of exactly what they're saying has occurred. Then as you said, there were quite a lot of people involved, a lot of by-standers so we needed to get all of the names and addresses of those people, we needed to understand…
Ross Solly: Have you followed up with the bystanders?
Leanne Close: Certainly yes.
Ross Solly: And have they provided information to you?
Leanne Close: They have, and so we've got part of a story, but we'll need to get the full story by having the taxi drivers come forward and have a chat to us.
Ross Solly: When your officers arrived there, was the altercation still taking place, were there still punches being thrown?
Leanne Close: No, at that stage what happened was that some of the people had already left the area, who were allegedly involved in the incident and there was lots of people milling about and so the police were just actually trying to ascertain what's gone on, separate people so that the tempers could be calmed down, people could then get on with their business about getting home.
Ross Solly: Mr Ramin said, on this program that he actually identified his main assailant to a police officer there and the police officer spoke to this person and then allowed him to go. Have you managed to ascertain whether that happened or not?
Leanne Close: The police officer spoke to whoever was pointed out to them on the night, several of the witnesses said that the other people who were involved had actually left the scene so, the police can only go by what people were available at that point, talking to them all. So, until Mr Ramin comes forward and actually speaks to the officers and gives a full statement, and full descriptions again, it's quite difficult. On the night they spoke to all the people who were there.
Ross Solly: So, let's assume then that the person who apparently was the main assailant, the person who was attacking the taxi drivers was spoken to.
Leanne Close: Well we can't make any assumptions about how it all commenced until we get the statements from the taxi drivers. We've got a version of events that's a little bit different to the story that's being put out at the moment, so really my message is that we need to get all the people who were there on the night speaking to police, giving a full statement about what’s happened. And unfortunately, given the timeframe now that it's five days after the event and they didn't come forward the day that they were asked to come forward and provide these statements, makes it quite difficult for the investigating officers to now understand the full story of what's gone on.
Ross Solly: Okay, so there might be different versions of events but I think everyone would agree, it would be pretty hard to deny that there was some, obviously some punches thrown and there were some people assaulted.
Leanne Close: And what instigated that, and all the circumstances surrounding it, is definitely what we want to find out and resolve.
Ross Solly: Have you got details of the person who was pointed out as being the main assailant on the night?
Leanne Close: We've got various descriptions of people.
Ross Solly: If this guy was spoken to, have you got his details, do you know where he lives, do you know who he is?
Leanne Close: I don't have those myself, that's for the investigating officers who've spoken to all of the people that they have the names and addresses of, or they've attempted to speak to them if they haven't come forward to the police after numerous attempts to contact them.
Ross Solly: Let's go back and talk about the response time, assuming then, that as soon as you got the call in you went there. Okay, it's fair enough there's some confusion there that the brawl or whatever it was may have been going on for some time before the call was traced. The fact that it actually took place and lasted as long as it apparently did, and it took a phone call to get the police there. Should that have happened? I mean are we not supposed to have police monitoring hot spots in Civic? I mean this is what we’re getting callers saying I'm not game to go into Civic anymore, this is what the police are supposed to be monitoring aren't they? Shouldn't there have been foot patrols or people around this area? I mean a brawl's taken place and no-one knew about it until a call was traced.
Leanne Close: I think some of the inflammatory language about the brawl as well, it depends. Our police officers patrol on foot patrols around the city area all the time, we've got three City Beats teams specifically for that. Not just for the city area though, the city area obviously has a large amount of nightclubs, restaurants and other premises, it's a congested sort of area in relation to that. So we have a lot of police presence there on peak time - Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights - but there's other licensed premises so we have to be out and about and responding to the crimes that are occurring at the time. Taking four minutes is not a significant amount of time.
Ross Solly: No, and I think that sounds quite reasonable. But, do you know, did you have foot patrols out and about at that time of the night?
Leanne Close: Yes, yes we do. On a Thursday, Friday, Saturday night we have Beats patrols rostered each weekend.
Ross Solly: But were they out? I know they were rostered, but were they actually out and about or maybe they were having a coffee break, I don't know, I mean no-one would begrudge them that I'm sure but.
Leanne Close: Sure, no, they were out and about. I don't know exactly where they were at 3am in the morning but they were definitely out patrolling.
Ross Solly: Do you think that you have enough police, and do you think that presence that you've just told us about, is enough to monitor what's happening in Civic at that time of the night?
Leanne Close: Yes I do, look: we look at our rostering practices, we look at the numbers that we have, we've actually had an injection of 107 police officers by the ACT Government over the last three years. We had 46 new recruits graduate in December last year, and we've got 52 currently in the College as we speak. So in terms of the numbers that we've got, yes we've got adequate numbers. We can't be on every street corner for every incident that occurs and be watching for possible incidents.
Ross Solly: The Canberra Times today is claiming that, quoting some cabbies saying since this incident on the weekend they've been unfairly targeted by police; they've been pulled up for minor offences such as driving with one hand on the wheel, or having a door slightly ajar Are the police targeting the cabbies now in response to what happened on the weekend?
Leanne Close: No, certainly not. I'm aware that there was a police officer who was in the city area in the last couple of days who was wearing his green vest, fluoro vest, his marked car was at the side of the road and he did see several motorists, I think over five he's actually given a traffic infringement notice to, who were conducting illegal u-turns in the city and driving unsafely. Two of those happened to be cab drivers. Now from our perspective, cab drivers are professional drivers and they should be setting an example in relation to the road rules and obeying those for other drivers, so it's no different. It's no different to any other driver and three other non-taxi drivers were also provided with traffic infringement notices during that same time.
Ross Solly: So would you, I don't know, do you have the figures with you, do you know if there's been an increase in the last week of?
Leanne Close: No.
Ross Solly: You have looked though have you?
Leanne Close: Haven't got the figures and….
Ross Solly: But I know the Canberra Times raised this yesterday so I'm wondering whether you've, it's quoted as saying "the police could not immediately confirm how many traffic infringement notices have been issued in the past 24-hours", I'm wondering whether you now have that information?
Leanne Close: No, I don't have that and it would take us some time.
Ross Solly: Would you be able to find that out for us, because I'd be interested to know compared, the past 48-hours how that compares to maybe 48-hours over the same period last week and maybe the week before.
Leanne Close: Yes certainly, but we're not unfairly targeting any sector of the community. We make sure that drivers are acting professionally on the roads at all times.
Ross Solly: Because I got a breakfast letter as well here at triple six from someone who works in the area who says, I happened to walk past the taxi rank early this afternoon, this was two days ago, and observed a police vehicle parked on the foot path immediately opposite the taxi rank, the police officer in attendance proceeded to pull over a taxi when it approached and he breathalysed the driver, not having seen a breathalyser unit there before. Given the current circumstances, this at best seems like a provocative action on the part of the police.
Leanne Close: Well, I don't know why that officer was there at the time. They're doing their professional job and that's all the information I have at this point.
Ross Solly: It's obvious that the cabbies are feeling like they're being persecuted at the moment.
Leanne Close: I can understand their reactions and that they're concerned about security and other issues, and they've certainly managed to keep this information and story happening in the media for several days now. And I agree….
Ross Solly: Well, they're a bit scared by the sounds of things.
Leanne Close: Well, if they are scared - and I don't know that, because they haven't actually come to us and provide us with their full statement - we're certainly there to try and help them and resolve this issue for them.
Ross Solly: Final question because we are running out of time. The CCTV footage: we're told conflicting reports about why it wasn't there and why the cameras weren't working. What's the official statement as far as the police are concerned.
Leanne Close: Well, in relation to the CCTV footage, CCTV cameras are working in other parts of the ACT, there's several cameras right throughout Canberra that we utilise. Cameras don't solve the crime's for us, cameras only . . .
Ross Solly: No, but it might help to track down who was involved in this.
Leanne Close: Certainly, and sometimes they do and sometimes they're not providing us that level of information. The thing that we need to get back to from a policing perspective . . .
Ross Solly: There's no footage of this though is there? There's no footage of this incident at all?
Leanne Close: No, there's no footage of the incident, there's some footage of some people walking around who we believe may have been present, but that's not been very helpful to us because it's showing backs of heads and things. An important thing though, really for us, from a policing perspective, is to actually speak to the people that were there, and that's where the information comes from about exactly what's occurred. And conflicting stories mean that we actually need to speak to those people personally and get their statements.
Ross Solly: Are you satisfied with the reasons given why those cameras which would have identified [these people] weren't working on the night?
Leanne Close: Well, we've been working with the ACT Government in relation to the cameras in the city and identifying where we can place the new ones because again, government has funded some additional cameras and things in the city so we're keen to work with them on best placements.
Ross Solly: Look, there are so many other things I'd love to talk to you about but sadly we are out of time. But thank you so much for coming in and talking to us, and if we can we may need to revisit this down the track and I'd like to have the opportunity to talk to you again.
Leanne Close: Certainly.
Ross Solly: Thank you for coming in. That's our Acting Chief Police Officer Leanne Close. It's a quarter to eight.
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